The debate below was scanned from a copy of the original transcript.
McALLEN HIGH SCHOOL AUDITORIUM, McALLEN, TEXAS.
February 6, 1952. 8:00 P. M.
MR. L. R. BAKER----MODERATOR
MR. R. C. HOILES----- AFFIRMATIVE
MR. ROY HOFHEINZ----- NEGATIVE
MR. L. R. BAKER: Ladies and gentlemen; the subject for discussion this evening is: RESOLVED THAT THE TAX SUPPORTED SCHOOLS ARE IN VIOLATION OF AND INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, THE GOLDEN RULE AND THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.
The rules are brief, and are as follows: The affirmative is to have ten minutes to open the debate and the negative is to have ten minutes. Then the affirmative is to have twenty minutes in time of one minute periods to ask questions, and the negative is to have twenty minutes' time in one minute periods. Then there are to be ten minutes in time for each to ask questions until the two-hour period is up, unless both parties agree to end the debate sooner. Each person agrees to ask or answer to the best of his ability each question in not over one minute's time, unless the questioner gives his consent for a longer period of time. Each person also agrees that if he continues to talk after the minute is up he will pay one hundred dollars to the March of Dimes Fund for each minute or fraction thereof he exceeds the allotted time for each question.
It is also agreed that each party has the privilege of having two seconds, or assistants, to ask questions, but the answers are to be given by the two debaters. The question, again: RESOLVED THAT TAX SUPPORTED SCHOOLS ARE IN VIOLATION OF AND INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, THE GOLDEN RULE AND THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.
And now, for the affirmative to open the discussion, Mr. R. C. Hoiles. Mr. Hoiles! (Prolonged applause.)
MR. HOILES: Mr. Chairman, fellow citizens: I believe that tax-supported, Government schools violate the Ten Commandments, the Golden Rule and the Declaration of Independence. I believe that such Government schools violate the stealing and coveting Commandments because those who advocate Government schools covet the property of others who would not voluntarily entrust their property to these Government advocates and then these Government advocates initiate Government force to take Property from dissenters to support their Government schools. This last action, I contend, violates the stealing Commandment. I do not believe that one R. C. Hoiles has the moral right to use a club or a gun upon one Roy Hofheinz to make Hofheinz support Hoiles' school. I believe such action by an individual violates the stealing and coveting Commandment.
Nor do I believe that ninety-five R. C. Hoileses have the moral right to use clubs or guns upon five Roy Hoheinzes to make the five Hofhenizes support the ninety-five Hoileses schools.
I do not believe that multiplying the individual who would use force, by a big number, and the individual upon whom force is being exerted by a small number justifies the use of force.
I do not believe that multiplying a wrong by any number makes it right. I believe that such action by groups violates the stealing and coveting Commandments, just as I believe that such actions by individuals violate these Commandments. I believe in a single standard that covers groups and individuals.
Government schools also violate the second Commandment by bowing down to false Gods. The second Commandment, in the Catholic Bible is regarded as a part of the first. I believe that tax supported Government schools violate the Golden Rule because I do not believe that R. C. Hoiles should have the right to use individual or group force upon Roy Hofheinz to make Hofheinz contribute to Hoiles' schools; nor do I believe that Roy Hofheinz should have the right to use individual or group force upon R. C. Hoiles to make Hoiles contribute to Hofheinz’s schools.
I believe this is what Jefferson meant when he said: “I know of but one code of morality, whether it be for men or for a nation; I believe in doing unto others as I would like to have there do unto me.” I believe, just as every signer of the Declaration of Independence believed, in Government with the consent of the governed, with the consent of the individual, for only the individual can give his own consent. These signers pledged their own lives and fortunes to defend their ideas, not someone else's lives and fortunes.
Thus, since I believe Government tax supported schools violate these great moral guides, the Ten Commandments, the Golden Rule and the Declaration of Independence; and since I believe that we should follow these great moral guides until we find they are wrong, I believe that schools, like churches, should be supported on a voluntary basis. I believe there is no more justification for Government schools than there would be for Government churches. If Government schools are right and proper and moral, then Government churches would be also. The history of our schools shows that tax supported Government schools, through their monopoly of Government force, have made it very difficult for most private schools to stay in existence. The history of freedom from Government monopoly of churches has shown that many churches supported on a voluntary basis are strong and enduring and are a much better moral influence than they would be if they were Government supported and dominated churches.
No one is denied entrance into voluntary supported churches because of finances. If voluntary supported schools are freed from Government school competition why should anyone be denied entrance to voluntary supported schools because of finances. Schools on a voluntary supported basis would be much cheaper and better than Government schools are. Competition would make them so. Private business can always produce more economically than Government operation. This is so because the employees are selected on their ability to produce, rather than on their ability to deliver votes to those in control.
Those who think -- I put this in because one man today told me that he had two children and he paid one hundred and eighty dollars school tax, and he couldn’t send his children to private schools -- to voluntary schools -- on a hundred and eighty dollars. I tried to point out to him that he overlooked the additional cost of everything he bought, due to the extra cost of Government schools. I expressed it this way: Those who think poor could not afford schools on a voluntary basis overlook the fact that everything they buy is loaded with school taxes; so they must add to the direct school tax paid by the parents all of the higher prices due to school taxes, added to everything they buy to get the real cost of Government schools.
Very few people realize how much indirect taxes raise the cost of your living. This cost must be passed on because every cost, including material, labor and taxes have to be paid by the consumer or the business firm would go broke. These unseen taxes are what is making our dollar buy less and less. I am opposing the sacred Government schools because I believe they can not teach a definite, limited Government, any more than a dictator could successfully teach that Government derives its just powers from the consent of the individual.
I realize how very difficult it is for people who have not given this a great deal of thought to see the way I see. When I was young I believed in tax supported schools. When I was a boy going to school I cleaned out this school for four months for a dollar and a quarter a month. When I was going to school -- when I was teaching school at twenty-five dollars a month, I believed in public schools. Why shouldn't I believe in it? Everybody around me believed in it; I hadn't read anything to amount to anything, I hadn't thought about it or anything, and as I grew older and commenced to see some of the textbooks that were used I thought they ought to be taken out. I devoted a lot of time and effort to try to get the textbooks that advocated more and more initiating of force, more and more collectivism out of the schools. I talked to Lewis Hanry on the matter. He's a great educator, and he said if you can get them out, you can do more than I can do. And because it is impossible to get the things out of schools that are in harmony with collective action, then the only way of solving the problem is to go into voluntary schools where they can teach that voluntary ways of getting things are better than getting them on an involuntary basis.
So, I have a great deal of patience with those people who haven't thought this over. As they get older and study and study, and see the bad results of collectivism, how the govern- ment, locally, and every way, grows -- sooner or later they'll commence to think that it’s very difficult to change the schools. I think that the teachers and a lot of the people are victims of the system, and they do not realize how it enmeshed them. It is infinitely more difficult now to see it, because they've had that influence for twenty-five years, than it was when I commenced to open my eyes on the subject.
I take this unpopular stand against tax-supported schools so that every boy and girl and every adult will be able to develop all the talents that God gave him and thus be blessed spiritually, and also, materially.
Thank you
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